Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 9:32 am Post subject: Doubt on ICETOOL/SYNCTOOL
Hi,
My Client is little worry about using the ICETOOL/SYNCTOOL in production jobs.
Everywhere we are using SORT in Production. But at the time of Unit testing, I found that ICETOOL/SYNCTOOL also work.
Is ICETOOL/SYNCTOOL are not the part of SORT ? OR like File-aid we have to borrow it ??
Since our client has already faced problem using File-aid in production and we have replaced all the File-aid with SORT, because there are costant change in version in File-aid and morever its a cost cutting measure from client side.
If we are going to use ICETOOL/Synctool can we also face the same problem as it was occured using File-aid. Is ICETOOL is not a by-product of SORT?? Do anybody provide any site which I can recommend my Client , so that he will be convinced and we can use ICETOOL without giving the second thought ??
Joined: 02 Dec 2002 Posts: 1618 Topics: 31 Location: San Jose
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:14 am Post subject:
The answer is much different for DFSORT's ICETOOL then for Syncsort's SYNCTOOL.
DFSORT's ICETOOL is a fully documented, fully supported feature of DFSORT. It has been a part of DFSORT since DFSORT Release 11.1 which became available in February, 1991. So DFSORT's ICETOOL has been available and official for over 14 years now!
Full documentation on ICETOOL is included in the DFSORT publications. For example, the "DFSORT Application Programming Guide" has Chapter 6, "Using ICETOOL".
Here's a link to the z/OS V1R5 version of "DFSORT Application Programming Guide" on IBM's website:
On the other hand, SYNCTOOL is undocumented, unsupported code in Syncsort. _________________ Frank Yaeger - DFSORT Development Team (IBM)
Specialties: JOINKEYS, FINDREP, WHEN=GROUP, ICETOOL, Symbols, Migration
DFSORT is on the Web at:
www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort
Joined: 15 Dec 2002 Posts: 637 Topics: 43 Location: Bengaluru, INDIA
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 12:11 pm Post subject:
Quote:
My Client is little worry about using the ICETOOL/SYNCTOOL in production jobs.
This reminds me of my similar experience I had in my former company. The opposition was unbelievably persistent! I showed some examples which almost entirely obviated COBOL programs doing control-breaks, duplicates' processing, report writings, etc. I also pointed to some links which Frank has posted above. I gathered, it was more of a problem "Why do I have to learn ICETOOL when SORT works fine for me?"
Now, of course, they can no longer ignore DFSORT/ICETOOL and are happy users of DFSORT/ICETOOL. _________________ ALL opinions are welcome.
Debugging tip:
When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
-- Sherlock Holmes.
Joined: 02 Dec 2002 Posts: 1618 Topics: 31 Location: San Jose
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 12:45 pm Post subject:
Ravi,
Thanks for the kind words. I don't get to answer too many questions on this board as Kolusu usually beats me to it, but I do answer some occasionally. I think everyone owes a big thank you to Kolusu for starting the board and answering most of the questions! I provided a little help to Kolusu (at his request) when he was starting this board, so I was able to influence its direction a bit. I really like the tone and functionality Kolusu brings to it (especially vs some other boards). _________________ Frank Yaeger - DFSORT Development Team (IBM)
Specialties: JOINKEYS, FINDREP, WHEN=GROUP, ICETOOL, Symbols, Migration
DFSORT is on the Web at:
www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort
Luckily, folks at my place were not so vehemently opposed when I went about replacing live easytrieve and cobol programs with ICETOOL (ofcourse where possible). Their only point of concern was that if an icetool step failed at some unearthly hour , it was quite possible that the person on call would not be able to fix it on account of not being familiar with the utility. The soln was simple. I took an overview session on icetool for the team and voila ...today everybody in the team uses icetool to such an extent that we seem to be pushing easytrieve into oblivion.
Frank,
I believe ICETOOL needs to be marketed well at organisations that use DFSORT. There are far too many misconceptions that people who are not familiar with it seem to have. conducting product briefs (like what the compuware guys do) can be a good idea. Not everyone working on the mainframe visit mvsforums.com or the other board. When I was propagating the wonders of icetool, I used to be asked all kinds of strange questions for some of which I had no answer. (sample- what if ibm decides to delink icetool from dfsort and our organisation refuses to buy icetool on account of cost cutting..?, dont u think we will have to change all the code that u r creating?)
Joined: 15 Dec 2002 Posts: 637 Topics: 43 Location: Bengaluru, INDIA
Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 3:11 am Post subject:
Mfjin!
So, all this time, I was not alone!! I too took a session explaining how simple tasks can be done using ICETOOL rather than application programs. (It was mainly by using examples from these boards and Frank's solutions. )
I too agree that, there are some misconceptions about ICETOOL/DFSORT. Often, people would ask me, what would the specifically gain by using ICETOOL? Now, I am not a performance/tuning person to comment on whether ICETOOL enhances effeciency. I would simply say that, what you could have done in application program I would do it in less than 15 minutes! _________________ ALL opinions are welcome.
Debugging tip:
When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
-- Sherlock Holmes.
Joined: 15 Dec 2002 Posts: 637 Topics: 43 Location: Bengaluru, INDIA
Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 4:36 am Post subject:
I dunno...
But, the other day, a colleague asked me an interesting question wrt DFSORT User Exits. We had a E35 exit in COBOL doing some file match. He asked me, if we could have the COBOL program access DB2 tables.
Honestly, I did not know the answer then; nor do I know now. I do not see any mechanism to pass the plan name to the COBOL program. So, probably, it cannot be done. _________________ ALL opinions are welcome.
Debugging tip:
When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
-- Sherlock Holmes.
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Posts: 12375 Topics: 75 Location: San Jose
Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 5:43 am Post subject:
You would all be real surprised that our shop uses SORT product just for sorting. Nothing more than that. We use easytrieve a lot. of course our shop uses syncsort which does not support all the features of dfsort and synctool is an unsupported feature.
Cogito : I was never a big fan of exits. But I will try to code a cobol-db2 pgm and see if it works.
Joined: 15 Dec 2002 Posts: 637 Topics: 43 Location: Bengaluru, INDIA
Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 6:33 am Post subject:
Me niether, Kolusu. Until I found that, this project uses exits; not heavily; but couple of %age points. So, I started learning them and I found that, they are not 'bad' (for lack of a better word?). Now, I am comfortable with them.
BTW, Kolusu, if you get a chance to see the DFSMSG of a ICETOOL job, then you would see that it is a E35 exit itself!
For example, this TOOLIN
Code:
//TOOLIN DD *
SELECT FROM(IN01) TO(OT01) ON(1,4,CH) FIRST DISCARD(OT02)
/*
So, we were using exits all the time! All those wonderful features of ICETOOL can be (or, were being) replaced by app programs. But, Frank kindly made them for us in neat operators called SELECT, SPLICE, etc.
I would really love to know if you get it a COBOL-DB2 as a user exit working. But, I am curious, Kolusu. How are you going to pass the plan name?
With what I have learnt, the COBOL program as an exit, is not really 'executed'. It is always called by DFSORT. That is why, exits might harm performance. Because, application programs do not read records from SORTIN dataset. The records from SORTIN are passed one by one to the COBOL program from DFSORT. _________________ ALL opinions are welcome.
Debugging tip:
When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
-- Sherlock Holmes.
Joined: 02 Dec 2002 Posts: 1618 Topics: 31 Location: San Jose
Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:21 am Post subject:
Not quite sure what to comment on here.
Regarding familiarizing people with DFSORT/ICETOOL:
The DFSORT Team has done presentations at SHARE and other conferences. The DFSORT website has a ton of information on DFSORT and ICETOOL. "DFSORT: Getting Started" is the best way to learn about DFSORT and ICETOOL - you can find it online at:
I completely rewrote this book for z/OS DFSORT V1R5 to cover most of the features of DFSORT/ICETOOL/Symbols in a straightforward, understandable way with lots of examples. Everything in this z/OS DFSORT V1R5 book also applies to DFSORT R14.
Regarding making ICETOOL a separately priced product or feature: ICETOOL has been a free part of DFSORT since 1991. Although I can't guarantee that won't ever change since I don't run IBM, there are certainly no plans to do that and if somebody proposed it, I would fight it tooth and nail. _________________ Frank Yaeger - DFSORT Development Team (IBM)
Specialties: JOINKEYS, FINDREP, WHEN=GROUP, ICETOOL, Symbols, Migration
DFSORT is on the Web at:
www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort
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